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| Reconcilition talk - Chronicle - attachments |
| Marcus The Cube |   
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| Group: Administrator Level: 2.jpg) Posts: 105 Joined: 4/16/2010 IP-Address: saved  | Destruction of SOJ thread Picture of Wesley before he started to show off with being a capeless officer ;) Monday 8.3.2010 9.04am Dear all, you announce here that you will destroy a whole community that you built up with me and promised to serve and lead because... (of what actually?!) Without a discussion?! That is a heavy threat, that is blackmailing, that is imposing your will upon others, so if you look for a tyrant, look in the mirror. But seriously Wesley, the screenshot of the posting (I took back!) only voices my frustration for being threatened by Millie for a little face-off with Chris. I have not bothered Chris with the cape on Saturday any more, I have even removed the whole rule to calm things down, what else do you want? Please stop to escalate this. You put our friendship and our planned and prepared future as a really nice gamer community in GW2 at stake! Do you really want to reject my invitation to talk and destroy what we have built together over more then 4 years?! Here is my reply to the allegations raised: a.) that I am a liar It was discussed, agreed and confirmed in the promotion thread. Chris wore usually his cape when I was in his party and only sometimes needed a gentle reminder. Whenever I called him, when we were joking, Gérôme or French he switched it off for an hour. I found this to be an excellent and funny compromise for both. I find it hard to believe that you forgot about all those things today... anyway, here is the evidence: the rule, the promotion, chatlog 1 and chatlog 2. b.) that I single out Chrisco / officer requirement / rule Wesley, I had with you more then one talk about it, but you refused to wear it, claiming you never agreed to wear it and could not wear it as a principle. You never said why, maybe to be the "rebellious = coolest officer"?.. To avoid that this becomes a trendy thing I made it an officer requirement. Millie was the first officer promoted under this new requirement introduced already in 2008 when people wondered why you, Wesley, the newly promoted officer, were not wearing the Christmas cape. c.) ridiculous rules That the leaders of a community wear proudly their own heraldic is not ridiculous. It's normal. Who else should wear it when not the guild officers... All officers before you wore it proudly as a matter of course. They never had a problem, it went without saying. d.) tyranny As you, Wesley, are the prime example that I am not a tyrant, I don't take that serious. You have almost never returned to the community what you were supposed to and had agreed upon. Did I demote you?... We can discuss everything you want, but not in this "my way or highway" style = what you don't like has to be removed or you leave & destroy everything. Because this is tyranny! This "my way or doorway" is a charge with a nice sound, but in reality whenever we had a controversial topic, and let's not overdraw it, we almost had none, whenever you disagreed with me, I corrected my position and followed your suggestions. In fact my understanding of the leadership in SOJ is that we lead it together. That means to share the duties and responsibilities, discuss things in a relaxed and fair way, but not argue and blame me heatedly if the outcome doesn't please you. e.) threatening First I wonder how Chris can (still) feel threatened by a 30 seconds ingame message skirmish about wearing the guild cape on Friday during the DoA event. There was no follow-up. On the contrary, on the next day I just switched my own cape off when he was taunting me dancing cape-less in front of me. That you get a negative reaction when you rudely refuse what you are supposed to do is threatening? That's the most normal thing in life! What "leader" would just ignore that? What would you think of a friend that wouldn't react when you throw him a rude no in his face? Closing statement I do not play this game any more because of it's content but because I like to play it with you. I like and enjoy your company. I see you as close in-game or even real friends and I hope you see in me not only the guild leader but also the friend you like to play with. We know each other for 2 and more years, we have spent more time together then with any of our real life friends in this time. Let's do an effort to mend and preserve this and see how we can avoid such dangerous situations in the future. I have avoided to use any smilies in my rather serious posting above, but I want to close with a smile. We were .gif) and .gif) and are .gif) . We should be really .gif) and do our best to become .gif) and be the .gif) friends we were again.
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| 5/17/2010 5:25:17 PM |   | |
| Marcus The Cube |
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| Group: Administrator Level: Posts: 105 Joined: 4/16/2010 IP-Address: saved | PM seen by Millie, Chrisco and Wesley as attempt to recruit former SOJ players in ToR individually Hello Tuukka, the reason why I write you is related to the split of SOJ. Of course that will not be a surprise to you. We are now playing this game for quite a while together, even if we have more chatted on TS together then we have actually played together, I don't actually know why, but anyway,... As you know SOJ is a more then 4 years old social guild and has of course been through ups and downs, which is rather normal when so many people spend quite a lot of time together. What started as a little skirmish between me and Chrisco got out of hands and ended up with a separation of friends that have been together in SOJ for a couple of years and that wanted to continue to play together in GW2. We have spent almost every evening of the last years together on TS. I have even met Wesley in real life several times. We have at the end spend more time together then with any other friend in real life... that's why the emotional impact of that split is heavy :( In the last month I have tried to mend the damaged friendship and from my point of view I think that after 2 weeks of anger we have settled our issue now and we (Millie, Chrisco, Wesley & me) regret to have stupidly overreacted on a tiny little detail. These are in principle very good news  but now we got stuck in the details on how to best reverse the damage, and that's where you come into play.The major obstacle is that Millie, Chrisco & Wesley think that you & the others that followed them to ToR would not want to return to SOJ with them. I think we had never troubles with each other, so I can not imagine any reason why you would not want to follow them back to SOJ now that the conflict is settled. That's why I would like to ask you if you would really feel uncomfortable to return, see major problems related to a reunion or even don't want to return at all? > If you would be happy to return anyway, please tell me and also tell Millie, Chrisco & Wesley that you would be happy to follow them back to SOJ. > If you would not be happy to return, I would like to ask you if I can do anything that would make it easier for you or that could change your mind? Of course any help you would be happy to offer to solve this is highly appreciated. Thank you for your help! Marcus | |
| 5/19/2010 12:50:43 PM | | |
| Marcus The Cube |
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| Group: Administrator Level: Posts: 105 Joined: 4/16/2010 IP-Address: saved | PM sent out to all SOJ member in ToR after 5 hours of playing and talking with Chrico and Millie on the 27.6.2010 in this talk they said it was my bad English that caused the misunderstanding, and "talking about playing together" does not mean "talking about an alliance". Hello all, and cheers from Belgium. I am sorry, I have and will have a busy time until the last third of July. The dialogue will be therefore slower. Especially my replies will take longer compared to what you are used to. But I think that gives us all more time to think and react in the nicest possible way. I will try my best to stick to that first of all I retain the main points of the long talk I had with Chrisco and Millie and at the end Miikka on Sunday: + Chrisco, Millie and I would like to play Guild Wars together again in an alliance between our guilds and be again the game friends that we used to be for many years. + The reason why our efforts to talk with ToR failed is that I/we did not use the word "alliance" in our offers to talk but used the (for us) wider term "playing together". + Official talks are now opened. After 3 months and from my point of view 4 failed attempts this is most likely our last chance to mend the relationship. + There is a thread in the ToR forum about an alliance with SOJ and SK in which Millie, Chrisco and Mikka have voted yes (obviously as otherwise all this would be a farce :P), Dave no (I was not directly told but it was clear enough readable between the lines) and "several other members" have also voted no. + Nobody from ToR volunteered yet to find out why they have voted no or to mediate, explain,... + Miikka will play the role of a coordinator for ToR. I will do that for SOJ and SK. Some help here would be very welcome In fact personally I had enough of guild drama for years in advance in the last months  My goal here was and is to do whatever is possible from my part.I found that we were a great community. So I would like to invite those that share this opinion to help me a bit before it's too late. If you are one of the people that has voted "no" - please give me a chance to talk with you about your reasons. Making peace That will only work out when we both make an effort... I can't fix that alone! Sometimes I feel like a spectator sitting in a movie that has missed the beginning of the screening. I have already contacted 2 months ago all SOJ member in ToR if they had a problem with me and offered to talk but besides Miikka no one replied in a negative way, even Dave replied that he "had no problem at all with me, was always made to feel welcome, had nothing but happy times and would be willing to help". The "the word fuck" video is one of the 9 mood videos posted in the 1555 days of SOJ thread. It has been seen uncommented only by Wesley and Millie. Millie told me some time ago she found it funny - it actually really is. Wesley asked me. I told him that if at all he should consider the main link as meant for him. This was posted during a time when we were in good terms with each other and playing again together, so imho that could not be misunderstood by any well-meaning ToR member. The idea of an alliance was born by Millie and me on the 30/3. I officially suggested it to ToR when I had my first talk with Chrisco on 2nd of April. In between these dates Millie & Wesley asked Lilly & me about the status of the discussion. We both said that it doesn't look good. People here wanted to see a gesture of regret from ToR for causing so much damage before talking about a reunion or alliance. So what you could have done in the last 2 months is to accept my invitations "to talk about playing together" and not reject them because I did not use the word "alliance". But seriously, these misunderstanding hurt immensely and felt like hits in the face! In between there were always good moments but then again we had the feeling you are just waiting that I/we do something you can misinterpret in a bad way... Future I would love to see us play together again as GW friends that we used to be for so many years. Yes, there are some obstacles to overcome, but with good will on both sides that shouldn't be too hard. It's a game. We have played it together for ages... If everyone admits that he has overreacted we should be fine, don't you think? Cheers and best wishes! Marcus
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| 9/19/2010 3:44:52 PM | | |
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