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| Marcus The Cube |   
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| Group: Administrator Level: SoJ Grand Master  Posts: 4568 Joined: 1/30/2006 IP-Address: saved  | Chronicle of the reconciliation initiatives taken by the SOJ and SK leadership and the answers of the ToR guild: ToR has no leader. The answers had to be internally aligned with all members. That seems to be the explanation for all the surprising turnarounds. This thread is a live summary of the steps taken. It was open for ToR members for 6 months until September 11th 2010 to provide for transparency. First attempt Week 0 Friday night - Sunday night: 5.3. - 7.3.2010 In the SOJ 2010 thread you can read what happened between Friday night and Sunday morning. I sent several PMs to Millie, Chrisco and Wesley inviting them to talk. Millie replies that the relationship had broken down and would never have been mended and that I did not offer to talk once in the 24 hours. Forgotten seems the chat on msn that I had with her and the long talk with Wesley on Skype only a couple of hours before they left not hinting towards any major issue or upcoming drama.  This feels like a bad dream... No reply by the others.Week 1 Monday 8.3. 2010 Reply to the raised allegations on the forum and Chriscos' threat to destroy SOJ. No reply. Hot recruitment phase. 19 active SOJ member leave to join either ToR or ICE (suck us dry) informed by Dave  Riaan invites to talk. Elli invites to talk. No reply. Thursday 11.3.2010 I answer to Chriscos' PM from Saturday concerning the guild cape incident on TS during the DoA event on Friday night and invite him to talk. No reply. Saturday 13.3.2010 I talk on TS and resume playing with Millie. Friendly tone. We conclude that we both have overreacted. She tells me I have to talk with Wesley and Chrisco as creating a new guild was their decision  Sunday 14.3.2010 I talk with Wesley on Skype. Neutral topics. Surprisingly friendly tone  Week 2 15.3.2010 I talk with Wesley on Skype testing a new headset I bought. On the question why he left he replies that as all important people have joined ToR that confirms that they are right and I am wrong. He quits the Skype conversation and asks in written chat for an excuse  16.3.2010 I apologise on the forum and send a PM to Chrisco and Wesley with an invitation to play & talk. I contact Chrisco on msn and he accepts to play and talk with me on Sunday 21st. 18.3.2010 Talk with Wesley on a friendshiplike level. He says he would talk with the others about returning but thinks that the member that followed them would not want to return. Overall good feeling in SOJ and SK that things can be finally settled  19.3.2010 Chrisco states on msn that their people did not leave bcs of the clap on his fingers. They will not rejoin SOJ bcs of what "I did"  20.3.2010 Chrisco cancels the talk on Sunday 21st because he is not ready to talk and "there is nothing to talk about" Week 3 25.3.2010 Wesley confirms on msn that they will not rejoin SOJ, because "what happened" made it impossible for "their members" to come back. Millie confirms that there is nothing left to discuss. Total confusion in SOJ and SK  Lilly [SK] starts to mediate. Second attempt Week 4 29.3.2010 After an ingame chat with Millie I spontaneously join ToR on their TS. We play, chat and have fun as we used to and I am invited to join them whenever I want  2.4.2010 I talk with Chrisco on TS. Topics: 1) rejoining SOJ under the condition that they are reinstated, lead the guild and I retire but keep my position as "guild owner". He does not believe the members that followed them would want to come back. 2) alliance with SOJ. This option suggested by Millie shortly before the talk with Chrisco needs further talks on both sides. We conclude that he would come back to me once both points were discussed in ToR and I would discuss that options with SK. Lilly starts to have long ingame and msn chats with Chrisco and Wesley almost every evening. Also I try to chat and keep in touch with Wesley and Millie. We chat a couple of times. Overall mutual trust seems to be re-established and talks and chats are back on a friendship-like level again  Week 5 6.4.2010 The major obstacle identified by Lilly and me was that the 3 worried that the former SOJ member in ToR would not want to come back. Therefore I write those former SOJ member a PM asking if I can do anything that would make it easier for them to follow them back. All those that reply say that they were happy in SOJ  In the early evening Chris sends me an msn message accusing me of trying to recruit their members. This is later confirmed by Millie and Wesley. At the end of the evening ToR decided (all member/leaders were online on that evening) to end talks "as an alliance is not possible". Side note: this topic has only been informally discussed between Millie and me and Wesley and Lilly and in my chat with Chrisco on the 2nd of April. ToR never got to hear the options we had in mind as the official dialogue was never opened on that topic. In fact an alliance was possible with some details that had to be discussed but easy to overcome with some good will imho.  From Miikka I got a reply that he would only come back under certain conditions that only ToR guarantees him (GH switch according to GvG needs, multiguild membership in GW2, simplification of the guild rules and structure and public apology for the ban of contact with ICE). Millie asked me in a PM to give them more time. Third attempt 11.4.2010 Wesley invited me ingame to join him for the next DTSC. My request to join their TS is rejected by Chrisco because another member vetoed it (= Dave or Valeske as nobody else was online). After 30 minutes of waiting in the Eternal Grove Wesley told me that he is playing now something else.  Week 6 18.4.2010 Friendly "super late night" talk with Chrisco. We agree to play something together later on that day after some sleep. Some hours later (evening in Europe) Millie invited me to join them. Minutes later I got a disinvite because an unnamed ToR member vetoed my participation.  Week 6 21.4.2010 I invited the 3 to join me on the 21.4. to play the Zaishen mission of the day and chat a bit with me. Playing and talking with them was as nice as it used to be, as if nothing had happened. There was no serious talking as Millie did not want that. That's why I invited Chrisco and Wesley to talk with me later when they were ready.  Week 7 26.4.2010 ToR rejects the invitation to talk about options to continue playing together. .gif) 30.4.2010 We invited all ToR members to join us for an event. The evening was almost as nice as it used to be. It was a bit more silent than usually as we probably all had in mind the above decision. .gif) &  Week 8 3.5.2010 Wesley points me on msn to the hidden "word fuck" video link in the 1555 days of SOJ thread. I "redirect" him to the main link. To avoid misunderstandings I added an explanation. Taking my efforts to get us back playing together and that we got along quite well only 3 days before into account, that could not be misunderstood by any well-meaning ToR member. The message was (successfully) targeting an ICE member screening our forum daily and asking me strange questions ingame. 5.5.2010 Linda and I got banned from the ToR forum. The overall feeling is best described by:  All SOJ and SK officers ask me to stop. After 3 failed attempts the ball is clearly on ToRs' side now!
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| 5/24/2010 6:10:09 PM |   | |
| Marcus The Cube |
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| Group: Administrator Level: SoJ Grand Master Posts: 4568 Joined: 1/30/2006 IP-Address: saved | 24.5.2010 Last personal try - 4th attempt "invitation to talk about talking" in a nostalgic moment after getting some distance to the drama during my holidays in Turkey. Chris (Godsie) leaves the guild to join ToR apologising and stating that he is not joining them because he agrees or supports them in what happened in SOJ. No reply 7.6.2010 Because I find it hard to understand how after all the good times we spent together all the former SOJ member that are now equal leaders of ToR can approve to reject our last offer to talk about playing together again I ask Miikka and Greg in a personal message to explain me why they refuse to talk, why they hold up their allegations against me, why they deem it necessary to ban me from playing with them and deny me and Linda access to their forum. Fifth attempt 23.6.2010 Miikka replies that he was not involved in the above discussions and decisions and that Millie, Chrisco and Wesley had no mandate to talk for ToR. He will get back to me with a concerted answer next week. 26.6.2010 I chat with Chrisco on msn about the topic "playing together" (no joke). Friendly tone  27.6.2010 I talk for 4 hours with Chrisco and Millie on TS. They explain to me that all the above mentioned attempts to talk were rejected because we offered to talk about "playing together" and did not use the word "alliance". Millie, Chrisco and Miikka would like to have an alliance but unnamed members of ToR do not for unspecified reasons. We agree to proceed step by step. As they are not able/willing to talk with the people that voted no, I will have to find out firstly who they are and talk with them before we start resuming to "play together" on a regular basis. Secondly we will invite all for a few activities as the other way is not possible as long as people veto my presence on ToRs TS and in their teams. 1.7.2010 I sent a PM to all former SOJ member with a short summary of the nice talk I had with Chrisco and Millie on Sunday and an invitation to talk with me in case that they would have a problem with me or somebody else. As Dave seemed to me to be the one Millie & Chrisco meant with "unnamed" member, I sent him an individual PM. 2.7.2010 Somebody opens the ToR thread about an alliance with SOJ for me for a few hours before locking me entirely out. In that thread Wesley and Dave threatened to leave ToR if it came to an alliance with SOJ. Chrisco voted firmly no. All this happened already days before the chat and the talk I had with him and Millie. In a new posting Chrisco now confirms in that thread that he doesn't want an alliance and would leave ToR if that would happen. Dave makes fun of my last PM. None of the other ToR co-leader comments or criticises those statements or replies to my last invitation to talk. At midnight Chrisco delivers TORs' final decision:  .png) Personal closing statement: For me every single officer in ToR has now maxed out his AH title. Some of my best ingame friends turned hostile because I was a little bit harsh with Chrisco?! No. Friends, loyal and dedicated leaders of this community for many years would never leave and try to destroy this community without a previous thorough discussion. Friends would never call me an idiotic liar. Friends would object when somebody calls us drama queens, attention whores and self deluded elitists behind our back... Friends would never think or say "yeah, we managed to get all the active people we care most, screw the rest". Friends could never arrange that with their conscience. Real friends would not trash me and you like a used toy after so many years of "friendship" on a Sunday morning just like that. They could never do that. No. Never. While this thread was open for all during the last months they locked me out of their forum except for 2 weeks in which they made sure not to have anything planned I could join. Then they decided to sever ties with us but still found it funny to continue teasing me. They were only friendly to smash the door in my face on the next day. In my eyes they were false friends. They redlined me, left us behind, built walls and ruined a nice GW players community for little more than nothing. We have spent approximately 100 hours preparing for serious talks that were rejected because of no or irrational reasons. They were not worth it. They messed around with us and just trampled it all down. I will try to forget them. 11.7.2010 Finally an honest statement by Millie. It seems they just wanted to have their own guild (TART) back and take whoever they could with them. Their actions were false and despiteful. They did a great job pretending to be friends until they showed their true face: closing ranks, creating a new guild and casting me out. All within the 6 hours Wesley knew that I had no internet... This seen in contrast to my 2 months of work convincing Chrisco to start to read and use this forum and to organise a guild event looks very strange! Whatever happened. At the end of the day Chrisco and Dave certainly beat a record in being double-faced. Millie, Greg and Wesley switched year long friendships off like the lights in their room. Miikkas' statements made no sense to me as usual. Godsie & others just cared about the higher activity level in ToR. Not one of them made the tiniest effort to start a dialogue to mend things. On the contrary. They brutally turned down all my attempts to talk or at least did not veto this hard line. I was blind and did not want to see that they were bad people. Opportunists that were just pretending to be friends. Ice-cold turning their back on me and you. They did not care a second about me or anyone that did not take sides with them in the past months. Not once in all this time they invited me to play or talk with them. They only accepted my invitations to mess about with me and throw the door in my face on the next day. I was blind and made a fool of myself trying to mend a non-existent friendship. Farewell Millie, Wesley & Co. .gif) Farewell is a word, so simple, so dour. Saying what started but did not endure. Farewell is a feeling of something that’s gone. Farewell is a memory that stays for too long. Farewell is everything that’s been left unsaid. Farewell is the greeting of someone who’s dead.  Let a new age dawn, an age of justice and peace for all Swords and their allies!
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| 6/25/2010 9:28:51 AM | | |
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